134. Winnie Auma: From growing up in extreme poverty in Africa to studying at Harvard, speaking at Facebook, Google and teaching entrepreneurship to vulnerable women

I’m speaking today with Winnie Auma who has had an extraordinary career and life.
Winnie grew up in extreme poverty in rural Africa and was the youngest of 15 children. She went on to pursue higher studies, including an MBA and an Emerging Leader at Harvard Kennedy School.
She is now the Chief Program Officer at Village Enterprise Fund that operates in 7 countries across Africa and has supported 275,000 people to start their own businesses.
Winnie has spoken at companies like Facebook, Google and the Rockefeller Foundation.

Learn more about Winnie:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/winnie-barbra-bb3a3062/

Learn more about Village Enterprse:
http://www.villageenterprise.org
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Transcript

00;00;02;21 - 00;00;25;14
Sonal
Hey there. Welcome to the How I Got Hired podcast. I'm your host, Sonal Burrell, former director and founder of Supercharge. And I have had an insane corporate career that started out in India, then moved to South America and then to Europe, often working only in Spanish or French, which I had to learn there from scratch. Now, why do I call my career insane?

00;00;25;25 - 00;01;03;17
Sonal
Because while I've experienced complete highs like working across geographies and industries, while navigating challenges like needing visa sponsorships, zero network locally during recessions and often while being a new mom to one of my two kids, I have seen career heartbreak and multiple layoffs as well as a career strategist. I strongly believe that a fulfilling career is a birthright and not a privilege for the lucky few who have access to prestigious education, capital and networks.

00;01;03;29 - 00;01;29;15
Sonal
And now I am on a mission to democratize access to high value career advice by designing affordable digital courses with my YouTube channel and this podcast right here, where we learn together from ordinary people like you and me and how they created extraordinary career success. I hope this episode reminds you that if they could do it, you can do it too.

00;01;29;23 - 00;02;04;21
Sonal
Now get ready to get supercharged. Let's go. Hey, welcome back. Today. I am so glad you decided to press play. My name is sort of Bell, and I am speaking with Whitney Alma, who is an extraordinary person who has lived an extraordinary career and life. And I don't say these words lightly. Whitney grew up in extreme poverty in rural Africa and was the youngest, not one of the the youngest of 15 children.

00;02;05;21 - 00;02;39;07
Sonal
She went on to pursue higher studies, including an MBA, as well as a very coveted program at the Harvard Kennedy School for emerging leaders. In that amazing, she is now the chief program officer at Village Enterprise Fund, V.F.. This is a nonprofit organization that operates in seven countries across Africa and has supported 275,000 people to start their own businesses.

00;02;39;26 - 00;02;53;03
Sonal
And Winnie has spoken at companies like Facebook, Google, Rockefeller Foundation, and so many more. We have so much to learn from Winnie and her career trajectory. Very, very warm welcome to the show.

00;02;54;08 - 00;02;57;21
Winnie
Thank you so much for having me. Such a pleasure to be here.

00;02;58;11 - 00;03;24;21
Sonal
Pleasure's all mine, Winnie. Such an honor to have you on the show and let us dive in and get started. And I want to start by spending a little bit of time and talking about your younger days. And, you know, you and I were chatting backstage, right? We do not control when we are conceived. We are. We do not control where we are born.

00;03;25;09 - 00;03;54;00
Sonal
Right. It is such a coincidence where it happened. It is such an accident. Right. We do control, however, what happens after that? To some extent, to a large extent, especially as we get older. Right. So talk to us about this period of time when you were growing up under challenging circumstances. Right. Like I said in the intro, I want to talk to you about like what were some days a two part question.

00;03;54;05 - 00;04;07;29
Sonal
What were some of your happiest memories and what did you learn during difficult periods? Some lessons that you could share with us that continue to serve you still today.

00;04;09;09 - 00;04;43;23
Winnie
Thank you so much. That's such an exciting question. You know, going back to my early childhood and some of the things that really brought me joy. Things like playing with my friends, playing with my family. I also remember my early childhood. I spent a lot of time in the church, so I lived for a small bit of my life in the Catholic mission and I was taking care of the blind Catholic father.

00;04;44;10 - 00;05;09;25
Winnie
And my responsibility every Sunday was to take him from his house to go to the church. And so I got to experience that the church life and and to serve God in that in that way. The second part of that was really in my high school days. And for those days I spent a lot of time get involved in different sports activities.

00;05;09;26 - 00;05;39;22
Winnie
So I used to think I was a very good athlete and I was also very involved in the in the schools, in music and dance and drama group. And I used to get feedback that I was very good at them. So those are the memories in my childhood of things that really made me so happy, brought joy to me and the memories that I still share with my with my daughter and my son today.

00;05;39;22 - 00;06;11;11
Winnie
So I'm very proud of those memories. And of course, those despite the challenges I think you mentioned, Ali, I'm the last one of 15 children and I didn't really get to experience my dad as much as I wanted. So I got to really see my mom and my siblings on a daily me daily basis, make tough decisions on is it a detention, is it shelter, food?

00;06;11;26 - 00;06;37;29
Winnie
And so I got to see and experience life from there lens. But I also got introduced by my particular little brother who took care of me in my early education up to high school before he passed on. And I still remember some of the lessons he instilled in me. One day he came back home with a new Ugandan No.

00;06;38;00 - 00;06;58;13
Winnie
1215 and he's like, When did you want this one? And I was like, Yes, I want that money. He drops it down his steps, so I'm going to tag in the ring. So the note actually going back to him and he asked me again, Do you want it? I was like, yes, I wanted. And he did it several times because we do want it.

00;06;58;13 - 00;07;20;24
Winnie
I was like, Yes, I want it. Let me pick the note and give it to me. And it's like today, another very valuable lesson in life. Just like this money you're going to experience. You're going to meet people in your life that are not that are not going to treated. You probably going to be serving money. You're going to experience circumstances that are going to throw you down.

00;07;20;24 - 00;07;57;18
Winnie
But remember, just like this Monday, you want to use your body. And so, you know, looking back at the time I spent in charge some of the things that some of the values that I've lived through with me are really just values of hope. So I'm a very hopeful person. I'm a very optimistic person. Even when situations and circumstances happen, I'm always the person is expecting that there's going to be a light at the end of the tunnel in my home.

00;07;57;18 - 00;08;22;13
Winnie
I know a lot of people will tell you that winning is one of them person that will come home no matter the situation. She will be laughing, she'll be cheering, because I'm always optimistic that things will change. And that's something that got nurtured during the time I spent in charge. My experience with sports and drama really taught me perseverance.

00;08;22;13 - 00;08;43;00
Winnie
And and so when I am because life in sports, you win some, you lose. And so I knew from then that life is not linear. So even when you know, in my highs school days when my brother would tell me there's no money for you to go back to school now, so you're going to wait one more week.

00;08;43;15 - 00;09;15;28
Winnie
I understood that there are going to be moments when he has moments when he doesn't have and I need to wait. And and I've tried to carry those forward, even in my experience with life today, just recognizing that our world is fast evolving, fast changing, and that there is nothing that is linear. And so being willing to adapt and change with the things and circumstances around us as some of the values that I try to move forward.

00;09;15;29 - 00;09;42;27
Winnie
And then and I'm personally grounded in values, I feel like those are like my timeless principles of like love, kindness, family, community. And so I try to approach my one every day from a values point of view rather than just coming to it from a place of this is a job, this is what I'm doing. Like, how does this impact the lives of others?

00;09;42;27 - 00;09;51;27
Winnie
How does this impact my life? And does this work aligned to my own values? Something I don't know. But that's also a reflection.

00;09;52;12 - 00;10;10;21
Sonal
Very much. Very much. Thank you for sharing. I think there are two parts to what you shared that I think about repeating. The first is when I asked you for your happiest memories, everything that you shared came down to acts of service, and that is open to all of us. It doesn't matter the background. We come from, the family situation we come from.

00;10;10;21 - 00;10;31;10
Sonal
And in your case, you know, there was a religion, there was an organized religion, and that helped you to, you know, to to direct your efforts towards a certain purpose. But even someone who's listening today and we're like, oh, I'm not sure I'm an atheist, I don't believe it doesn't matter when it's coming with acts of service, but it's coming from acts of love.

00;10;31;19 - 00;10;56;11
Sonal
They contribute to you being happy doesn't matter if you go home and your parents and your your mom has to decide. My gosh, I can't imagine what your mom must have gone through with 15 kids. Sounds like for a majority of the time she was doing this by herself. Right. So to make the kind of decisions that I think none of us ever can imagine that should we do school, should we send the kids to school today?

00;10;56;11 - 00;11;19;20
Sonal
Is there or should we ensure that we have enough resources to put food on the table or energy to get off the bills of energy versus water? Wow. And living in that reality, but continuing to have hope, right? That is one of the lessons that I'm taking away from you, as well as resilience. You win some, you lose some.

00;11;20;15 - 00;11;44;08
Sonal
And sports teaches you that life, that knockout city, just that. So 100%. 100%. I'm with you here. So thank you. Appreciate you sharing this. And so and I love that they continue to serve you today. It's not something we learned to Now, do you do something else and work as work and life as life and the twain shall never meet?

00;11;44;09 - 00;12;09;08
Sonal
No, it's not like that. That the values are intertwined. And how can I be? How can the work I'm doing today be useful? What a good question to ask. So I love that. So you decide to pursue education, right? When are you take that very seriously. And I want to ask you a very kind of pointed, almost shameless question that said, after your MBA.

00;12;09;13 - 00;12;34;18
Sonal
Right. You could have pursued so many possibilities. Now, talk to us about what made you choose to work in the not for profit sector, particularly in poverty alleviation? Because, you know, the reason I'm asking some people would say I want to do something completely different. Yeah, I've been through this. I've been through this. It's harsh. The reality. I don't want to go through that daily.

00;12;35;05 - 00;12;45;12
Sonal
I will, you know, do something which I can. There is a bit of a cushion and I don't want to remember all of that, but here you are. You go into the the belly of the beast.

00;12;47;01 - 00;13;19;17
Winnie
Right now. So that's that's I never really thought about it this way, but so I got my MBA when I was already working for the Village Enterprise. But let me talk to you about what got me into the nonprofit sector. So my first my first career, my first education background was really in education. So I spent the first few years of my career teaching high school students.

00;13;20;09 - 00;13;42;06
Winnie
And while I was on it, I actually felt and actually even good feedback that I was really good at it. But the challenge was that Sonia, I wanted to see immediate impact. I wanted to see, you know, outcomes with this student. I was like, Oh, I'd have to wait so long to get to know who these people would turn out to be.

00;13;42;07 - 00;14;13;08
Winnie
And I just didn't have the patience for patience. And also something something inside me was like, You are a product of giving hands. So if we look back into my and my stories that, you know, I stayed in there in the Catholic mission. So my education was all through the church and then later my late brother, when my late brother person, I joined Macquarie University through a scholarship from the Carnegie Corporation of New York.

00;14;13;24 - 00;14;54;08
Winnie
So all of my generation was like all the giving hands of different community members, whether it was in school scholarship or it was a brother or it was a Catholic father. And some people would give money to the Carnegie Corporation that I'm never going to meet. Those are the people that contributed to my education. So deep in me, I had this desire that I need to do something that connects me to the communities that I live, not just me to to deeply connect my purpose back to this feeling that I have inside me.

00;14;54;08 - 00;15;20;03
Winnie
And I wasn't quite getting into sort of the teaching part. So a friend of mine tells me that, you know, there's this opportunity at Village Enterprise, but it's a volunteer opportunity. But this organization works with communities. They help them start businesses and things like that. And I was like, Oh, maybe I should go find out more. And so I go, I have time to be a volunteer.

00;15;20;03 - 00;15;52;05
Winnie
I join the organization. I start to do the work eight months down the line. You know, Diane Colby, the CEO of Village Enterprises Higher, and she goes through this process of restructuring the organization, including redefining the product and the service of the organization. And through that process, I am involved with other people across the organization are involved. And I was a volunteer at this point, and that's when it hit me.

00;15;52;15 - 00;16;22;05
Winnie
I was like, My voice matters. Even though I'm a volunteer, I'm considered a leader in isolation because they thought I will continue to fit into this strategic plan to fit into the restructuring of the organization. And that's when I decided that I wanted to stay in this and in this sector and do this work that directly supports communities.

00;16;22;05 - 00;16;50;14
Winnie
And so that's my story with the Village Enterprise. That's how I got there. So when I got the opportunity to do my employee, so I had some resources through my role in the village enterprise. And so I was able to go back to school at this point. So I had already gone from being a volunteer business manager for a field associate to assistant country director and country director.

00;16;50;14 - 00;17;13;18
Winnie
By the time I was pursuing my MBA and I had already experienced that, I had gone through all these different platforms. And this was an organization that valued the leadership of local people to drive change for their communities. And I was like, I want to be a part of this organization. I want to be a part of the team that shifts its future.

00;17;14;00 - 00;17;41;03
Winnie
And so that's that's that's how I'm here. And so for me, the work that I do think back to to my papa and I would say to all those that are listening to us, said, You find something that resonates deeply with your purpose, go for it and you find an organization that gives you the platforms that continues to allow you to pursue opportunities for growth.

00;17;41;03 - 00;17;43;08
Winnie
That's where you come in to you. And I think.

00;17;44;12 - 00;18;06;14
Sonal
Yeah, no, I totally understand that. And it's kind of like going home actually for you because you were volunteering for so long and then when you became permanent in their payroll, let's say people were already familiar with you, they respected you. It was just a question of, you know, making it official, let's say. So I understand, you know, a very, very practical question here.

00;18;06;26 - 00;18;13;14
Sonal
When you were volunteering, was that full time or were you doing something else on the side to earn to make a living?

00;18;15;01 - 00;18;43;09
Winnie
So when I was volunteering, we were actually getting campus. And so Village Enterprise back then or remodeling the program to what it is now, used to work with communities and they would provide startup grants, then they would do that in three different cohorts in the in the year. So we used to get a percentage of how many businesses you supported launched within my particular region.

00;18;43;09 - 00;18;55;03
Winnie
So I wasn't earning an income on a monthly basis, but I was earning an income based on my the milestones that I would receive. So it was an idea. Yeah.

00;18;55;04 - 00;18;56;23
Sonal
So this was this was full time.

00;18;58;02 - 00;19;00;19
Winnie
So this was a full time volunteer.

00;19;00;23 - 00;19;02;06
Sonal
Volunteer opportunity.

00;19;02;20 - 00;19;12;16
Winnie
For volunteer opportunity. It wasn't like based on monthly pay, it was based on you being paid based on, you know, the activities of.

00;19;13;01 - 00;19;37;16
Sonal
Though I understand it's quite creative, it's quite creative ensuring actually it's an incentivization as well, because a lot of people who one of the reasons they don't volunteer is the Liga. I want to do a lot, but time is limited and but this is sort of that sweet spot that that means to do. And, you know, when you've been there for a long time actually at a village enterprise right over over ten years.

00;19;38;00 - 00;20;00;14
Sonal
So when you look back, is there a particular role that you feel like was the most either the most difficult world or the most satisfying doctors about that, but also because the show was gone, how I got hired? Talk to us about, you know, was it covered? Did everybody else wanted what made Whitney stand out and get the job.

00;20;00;23 - 00;20;33;13
Winnie
More from him when he coordinator to an event manager and now to a country director level role and so being able to inspire others to to rise to the challenge and and mentoring and coaching them through their day to day job to deliver impactful results is what I really find very meaningful with my job. And then the other thing I think about my work now is that I get to work with different people to define the product.

00;20;34;06 - 00;21;04;25
Winnie
But the way we do it is really we must and the community, we work through local teams and across village Enterprise, we have over 500 staff. 97% of those are local Africans. They are nationals, they are local to these communities. And so we are co-creating a product that solves the needs of our people. And I find that really very important.

00;21;05;13 - 00;21;38;19
Winnie
And then in my current role also, I get to interact with a lot of different levels, and that allows me also to continue to grow as an individual because some of them have been people that I've been in this industry longer than we have, much bigger experience than me. So because the role allows me to connect and meet them in different platforms, it allows me to continue to stay on this learning journey and not to feel comfortable with the way I am.

00;21;38;20 - 00;21;54;21
Winnie
So I'm finding mentors. I'm finding coaches as a result of this, as a result of this increasing responsibility of overseeing the program across multiple countries. And so that's great. I think my current role is the one through one.

00;21;54;23 - 00;22;13;09
Sonal
I love that. That's all that. So that's all fun because you're living it today. And how did you get this role? Was it like a natural progression inside the company? You were given a call, you were promoted. Did you have to apply like talk to someone who's listening today, who's been in their company, let's say five years, ten years, 15 years, right.

00;22;13;20 - 00;22;19;18
Sonal
And want to continue to experience upward mobility. What has helped you?

00;22;20;22 - 00;22;48;26
Winnie
Yeah. So one of the things that has really helped me as an individual across the different jobs that I have had in the organization is to always see what's next. So if they are roles within the organization that I'm interested in is So let me give one example before I talk about my current. So when I was business mentor, I had supervisors have be coordinators.

00;22;48;26 - 00;23;16;19
Winnie
And so what I did was I had to go look for a field coordinator job. This application went through it and then I'll come back in and I like analyze and I ask myself, what skillset do I already have for this job? What skillset do I need to build for this job, and then go on that learning journey to build those skills so that I'm prepared for when the next opportunity comes that I'm actually ready for that opportunity.

00;23;16;19 - 00;24;00;17
Winnie
And part of that is the reading. Part of that is the talking to people who are already in those roles. What does it require to be you? How are you executing this role? And also talking to different leaders within the organization about my aspirations. And that's something where the current role that I have my job, it is putting yourself out there, talking to the leadership of the organization about your aspirations, but also you know, staying on the learning journey and really figuring out, you know, if the organization is on point of X and we need to get to the point, you know, if your organization is 9.8 and we need to get to point X,

00;24;00;28 - 00;24;23;25
Winnie
what is required for the organization to get there, what type of skillsets. And so some of the some of the conversations I've had with my supervisors include things like, you know, other people that I need to be talking to that I'm not talking to right now, are there skillsets that I need to develop in order to be ready for the next opportunities within the organization mission?

00;24;25;02 - 00;24;54;25
Winnie
And then talking about and finding also online courses to do so for this particular opportunity. As Chief Programs Officer, we were going through a reorganization within the organization and I had been staying on these programs. And so part of it was the organization asking do we have individuals internal to the organizations that have capabilities to provide this leadership?

00;24;54;25 - 00;25;21;17
Winnie
And so if I wasn't ready, if I wasn't forward looking at the moment when this opportunity came, if I wasn't doing the planning that was required for me to be able to have the skills us to deliver on this, if I wasn't building the networks and the connections that were required for me to deliver in this role as the chief programs officer, I wouldn't have I wouldn't have been here.

00;25;22;02 - 00;25;47;25
Winnie
So I think anybody out there don't be comfortable with where you are. Challenge yourself and ask yourself what what skill sets are my already lacking and trying to check out how how relevant are you with what else is outside your organization, you know? And then and even right now an I still think that I have a long way to go.

00;25;47;26 - 00;25;50;05
Winnie
But in my own day.

00;25;50;16 - 00;25;52;07
Sonal
Lifelong learning 100%.

00;25;52;07 - 00;25;55;20
Winnie
How can I get better? What else can I be doing.

00;25;56;01 - 00;26;17;15
Sonal
To 100%? I love this answer because it really, really translates well across. It doesn't matter. Public sector, private sector, not for profit sector. It's across the board. Right. So a couple of things that I'm taking away from what you said is doctor people, they are not because I see a lot of these teams on social media that say when you have a dream, when you have a goal, you keep quiet, don't tell anyone.

00;26;17;28 - 00;26;38;10
Sonal
I think that the thing is that people are mind readers, right? So when you're talking to people, what does it require to be you or when you are you asking, Do you want to do what I do? Yes, I said, because how else will they know and how else will they advocate it for you? Right. And so the most people are good people who want to help.

00;26;38;10 - 00;27;00;23
Sonal
They are not your competition in the mean spirited way that we see in the movies. Right. So that is the the biggest thing I'm taking away. And also so that's a bold for question. What does it required to be you on a daily basis and shut up and listen? Now listen. Let them talk. Learn from what they're saying and the forward thinking.

00;27;00;23 - 00;27;24;06
Sonal
You'll also that's a question to ask to a future mentor. What does it look like in the future? Hello. My skills still relevant? If there are a couple of steps ahead of you, they have some answers that you might find interesting. So if you don't ask, you don't know. So curiosity is always helpful. I love this because many people have talked about Curiosity on the podcast and I am going to now ask you something really that I have been anticipating.

00;27;24;08 - 00;27;42;20
Winnie
I Go ahead. Can I go ahead? One more thing. Yeah. Yeah. I was just also going to add that, you know, be responsible. Just do your job like people become your advocates. If you do your job, like let your work speak for you.

00;27;42;20 - 00;27;45;22
Sonal
Have a good job. Do a good job. Yes, do.

00;27;45;22 - 00;28;05;20
Winnie
A great job. I think there's a lot of people that want to progress in their careers, but even on their current role that they are in the know, doing a good job, you know, and a good job is not good enough. Like, you know, good is an enemy of good. So really challenging and asking yourself, how can I be good today?

00;28;05;26 - 00;28;11;12
Winnie
What's the 1% that I can do today to become better? So I just want to do that.

00;28;11;12 - 00;28;33;13
Sonal
So that's good. It's not a given. It's not a given. I usually take it as a given, but it's also relative, right? What is a good job? But I will tell you, your boss and your boss's boss will tell you so. So be open to that feedback. Yeah. Because then, yeah, it's easier. It's with that credibility, it is easier for people to root for you and to advocate.

00;28;33;13 - 00;28;42;13
Sonal
Yeah. So absolutely fantastic. So, Whitney, there is a question I've been meaning to ask you, which I have been anticipating a lot.

00;28;43;10 - 00;28;43;19
Winnie
Okay.

00;28;43;27 - 00;29;21;00
Sonal
And that is the politics at work. It's everywhere. I don't think there is any sector that has it more or has it less. The moment you bring people together. We have politics. Having said that, in the development sector, considering that there are so many actors, you know, you have government officials, donors, NGO workers, political leaders, refugees and probably some others that are missing out on what, according to you, is the most frustrating thing about all of this being in the center of all of it.

00;29;22;01 - 00;29;37;16
Sonal
And how do you manage to continue to work hard while, let's be clear, hanging on to any modicum of sanity.

00;29;37;16 - 00;30;02;10
Winnie
This is a great business like approach or I think that was challenging. Thing is somehow it is balancing the complexity of the landscape, but also sometimes the conflicting interests across these different stakeholder us.

00;30;03;08 - 00;30;03;21
Sonal
Actually.

00;30;05;15 - 00;30;47;25
Winnie
In our every government is different and they will have their policies. Every donor is different and they will have their expectations. Every local organization is different and they'll have their expectations even within know the organizations, different individuals. How different. And then sometimes, you know, different leaderships also require different styles and all of that, you know, you know, it can be conflicting in terms of what the interest side can be complex to like navigating some of that.

00;30;47;25 - 00;31;23;14
Winnie
So what I have really counsels for me at least, the things that allow me just to, you know, say in the midst of all of those things is really assuring that I have a support system. So and I talk about a support system of multiple professional levels. I have a support system of individuals that I might go to if I want to brainstorm ideas and while I'm dealing with a particular issue.

00;31;23;14 - 00;31;50;21
Winnie
But I know that someone at this level has had that experience or could have gone through that, those are the people I would go to and I'd be open and say, This is the challenge that I'm going through. This is what I'm thinking. I'm not sure what I'm thinking is correct, but would love to hear your opinion. You can just go forward with a problem like how would you deal with this?

00;31;50;24 - 00;32;15;22
Winnie
And so I have those individuals in my backlog under professional level. I also have individuals and of personal level, you know, sometimes it's like they socialized. But I don't believe in work life balance. I just feel like it's about setting the boundaries. So communicating about what's really important to you as an individual. So somebody is very important to me.

00;32;15;22 - 00;32;41;02
Winnie
So I try to make sure that across the organization, people know that like my family is important to me and that allows me if I need to take time off, that allows everybody across the organization, including partners, to be understanding of that. That's why that's something that's really important for women, why the commitment just be my values, all the organizational values that I represent.

00;32;41;02 - 00;33;18;05
Winnie
So for example, as village enterprise, we really value partnerships and we recognize that it is impossible for us to achieve our mission without success. And we recognize that every person that is going to come with different levels of capacities. And so how can we build a system that allows us to meet us halfway? If you come with 80%, we may with 20% of your pathway to 40%, we come with 60% of you come with a 50% return with 50%, and we reach the.

00;33;18;10 - 00;33;49;06
Sonal
Halfway share more about this because I think that we can learn a lot here. So if you how do you have like an example or a story without naming names where this was put to the best and you put everything that you've said, you've put it into practice. Like if we hear this from you in a story form, a lot of this will actually come even more to life for us and the listener.

00;33;49;06 - 00;34;40;21
Winnie
Wonderful. So in terms of a story, and I think here I'm going to just I'm going to be able to share some of at least that I want to level. Let me share one experience. So we we work with a partner called Mercy and a partnership has significantly grown and has taken us together to multiple countries. But it came from a place in relation and she was born in Uganda where both of us were working in a similar geography and we were watching with rampaging and we were implementing a poverty gradation program and they were supporting private sector actors to build the markets for this business.

00;34;41;08 - 00;35;17;16
Winnie
And so we naturally thought that because we are both in the same place, that those linkages would naturally be happening. But realized was that they were not happening that way. It required us to be more intentional. And so we started the conversation in Uganda and say, well, you know, through poverty gradation, that village Enterprise does was able to reach the most vulnerable through the private sector actors that Mercy Corps supports were able to then connect them to markets.

00;35;17;26 - 00;35;30;15
Winnie
So how do we come together? Right? And so we came together and created a product called Dreams, which is delivering resilient enterprises and market systems.

00;35;31;08 - 00;35;38;00
Sonal
And I love a good I love a good acronym.

00;35;38;00 - 00;36;18;21
Winnie
And then so did it. But this business, this program brings both our models together and we started to fundraise together. We went for competition. That was a competition led by the iconic group and Lever for Change, and there were several applications, over 18 applications that we applied and were the second one around. But part of the support that we received there after the briefs come through wasn't this support that allowed us to challenge each other.

00;36;19;06 - 00;37;00;21
Winnie
It allowed us to ask hard questions about about how we can make this model or this approach even more relevant for our projects. And then it also led to conversations around how do we then scale this up? So we kind of walked away with a ten year plan. And so now what? What was intended to be for Uganda, we were able to get 2 million, has the second runner up, but it opened doors of opportunities that allowed us to get additional 8 million for Uganda, additional money from IKEA and the Hilton Foundation.

00;37;00;21 - 00;37;33;22
Winnie
But due to fewer people, the additional money that has taken us to Tanzania and additional money from the Gates Foundation that is allowing us to test some of these walk in and Kenya. So even though that's an example with a work example, that example applies to our personal lives, that conversations are important. Like you can't assume somebody knows what you need in order to get to the next level.

00;37;33;22 - 00;38;01;12
Winnie
And I would try to approach it in such a way that every individual that you meet, you need to be figuring out how can I be to this individual and how can this individual be relevant to me? What can I add to them and what can they add to me? Then I think once you figure out that that relationship could blossom beyond coffee and tea, then it can be your life support for.

00;38;01;14 - 00;38;02;04
Sonal
It can be.

00;38;03;05 - 00;38;03;15
Winnie
Here.

00;38;03;23 - 00;38;29;16
Sonal
And what a transformation it can make at a macro level, at a macro level as well. So it's such a win win. It's such a win win when this happens. So I love this. You know, also, we need for the purpose of us, you know, listening today and learning about everything that you're doing, when we when you see, you know, the organization has had 275,000 people start businesses.

00;38;29;16 - 00;38;59;01
Sonal
I mean, wow, I love to see business and entrepreneurship as a force for good. I love that. Can you give us some stats? Just that very, very basic what to take typically end up doing? What kind of businesses just to, you know, make it like paint the picture for us? What are they selling goods services because there's yeah, there's beautiful things being made in Africa today.

00;38;59;01 - 00;39;04;20
Sonal
And I think we want to learn more about it. And also see how we can support wonderful.

00;39;05;03 - 00;39;36;07
Winnie
So whoever is listening cause they are laser show me we have landed and try the international airport. So you fly into Kampala and then we take a ride out into West Nile. So I'm taking you to West Nile, where we are implementing our Dreams program. So we first arrived in a rural areas, a beautiful city. We get on another route and this time it's bumpy.

00;39;36;07 - 00;40;16;09
Winnie
It's how this dusty, right? And we arrive in rhino camp, which is like a refugee settlement. And here we are meeting Stella. Stella joined the program in about two years ago. Stella was trained by the Village Enterprise on group dynamics, on financial literacy and everything about money. Stella was also trained on business development and everything about managing and growing her business.

00;40;17;07 - 00;40;53;28
Winnie
Realize Enterprise gives Stella money and at this point it's really $200 and she gets into a part of payments. Stella has launched her first business because business is really just selling stadiums. So she goes to a lot of town. She's bought cassava, she's bought militants, has bought sorghum, so she's selling this soda and she's selling it to refugees within the settlement come who need to supplement the beans.

00;40;53;28 - 00;41;23;13
Winnie
So the pleasure that they're receiving as food rations, Stella makes a profit. And Stella decides that within the refugee camps there is another need. People want to take tea. There isn't really a restaurant there. Stella put some money into a restaurant and she's doing this way. The how friends. And they're now running our restaurant. They're waking up in the morning.

00;41;23;13 - 00;41;50;14
Winnie
They're making tea people coming to to buy between them. Morning in the afternoon she goes back to selling her cereals to businesses, make more money, and Stella decides there's another need in the community. People want things. So she and her two friends open a clothing store. They go to a red town, buy letters, someone selling them in the refugee area.

00;41;51;13 - 00;42;22;04
Winnie
They make little profit. They decide that now we can actually hire land. They rent out the piece of land through our partner Mercy Corps. They, they, they they are given subsidies to grow sesame. They open their garden through. They are using their profits and now they are growing sesame. And so committing to the dreams program that we we I talked about early.

00;42;23;20 - 00;43;04;24
Winnie
That is what I really want to see. You will see on some businesses sesame sunflower, but you will also see retail business as where people are selling cereals or vegetables. You will also see some businesses where people are doing restaurants, salons, barber shops. So what I end up in was doing really is to find out what is the missing link within the community, what is the need in the community, Is there somebody meeting that need or not?

00;43;05;19 - 00;43;25;06
Winnie
And if there is no good in meeting that need, how can they structure their business around that? Then you'll find that over a year they diversify, they expand. Well, sometimes they start a whole new business, give them less business. What's not making companies? I don't know. I saw some painted a picture. I asked.

00;43;25;10 - 00;43;44;25
Sonal
You did paint a picture. And I love that. The touch points with the with the often with with Village Enterprise. It's ongoing. It's not a one shot thing that here's the money. Good luck. Have a good life. I love that the profit go back invested. Oh, it was a flop. It didn't work out. What else? So the the contact is continuous, right?

00;43;44;25 - 00;44;06;01
Sonal
So there is a there is ongoing mentorship that's going on. I love that acronym, DREAM and everything that's being produced. It's also it's adding so much value, it doesn't matter. Okay. If refugees are buying. So these are not luxury items, these are affordable items, but they bring value to that refugee's life. And guess what? The refugee wants like, Hey, what is she doing?

00;44;06;01 - 00;44;07;03
Sonal
I'll have what she's having.

00;44;08;02 - 00;44;08;09
Winnie
Yes.

00;44;08;18 - 00;44;35;29
Sonal
Thank you. Do something. I want to I want to make something and economic. It's such a great way for upward mobility is to be economically independent. So fantastic. Winnie, I can't believe we've come close to the end now. Our time is absolutely flawed. And there is a question I'd like to ask you. When you look back, I would say your career, maybe even your life with everything that you have been through and you are, you know, thriving so well.

00;44;36;20 - 00;44;52;11
Sonal
Tell us about is there one standout defining moment that supercharged your career, your life, and helped you to move closer to where you are today?

00;44;52;11 - 00;45;22;19
Winnie
Don't you Don't. I don't think there was one particular moment, I think for meaningful, every wrong, every opportunity. I feel like it was a series of supercharged moments, but it's fundamental to that super sad moment, I think is really just the inherent ability for me to just walk around with people, connect well with people, and then walk around with people.

00;45;23;02 - 00;45;52;14
Winnie
I feel like that's a skill set, but you to get smart in life because I think businesses and everything about our lives is just really talking around people. And if you can figure out that, that a piece of how do you work well with people, how can you navigate the multiple altitudes? And I think that's the other thing for me.

00;45;52;14 - 00;46;26;18
Winnie
I feel like if you take me to the community to train community members, I will just fantastic jobs. If you bring me to leader management meeting, I will do a fantastic job. If you take me to to connect with people at 30,000 feet, I will do a fantastic job. So really, I think the ability to navigate multiple altitudes and all different points, I think for me that's like consistently my charge now.

00;46;26;24 - 00;46;27;13
Sonal
I love that.

00;46;28;07 - 00;46;29;01
Winnie
Charge and almost.

00;46;29;11 - 00;46;50;08
Sonal
100% and I want to stay here for a minute. And you said there was a series of supercharged moments. Right? One of my favorite takeaways from this conversation is the fact that you saw all the goodness that came from being able to study and the scholarships that you got, the gift that you got from donors and you said, huh, I need to go back in there.

00;46;50;08 - 00;47;10;07
Sonal
And I don't like the word give back. It sounds kind of superior. And you were like, No, I'm just going to get in and do what I have to do. It's a circle. It's a circle of life, you know? So is there. Having said that, do you feel like maybe there is? I'm going to ask you a more provocative question now, which I did not plan to ask, But let's see.

00;47;10;26 - 00;47;27;08
Sonal
When you look back, is there one person or two people that you say that took a chance on me and that helped me a lot because I see you doing that today with others. Right. But when it comes to your own, is there anyone that you identify?

00;47;28;27 - 00;48;03;08
Winnie
Yes. Yes. My late brother, John Campbell, really took a chance on me. My brother Simon took a chance on being the Carnegie Corporation of New York through Macquarie University. Took a chance on me. The Catholic Fathers took a chance on me. So I'm going to just name them because they're just all there crossed, you know, took a chance on me.

00;48;03;08 - 00;48;40;21
Winnie
And you're going to bring Richard to us then know that there's so many people that took a chance on me and, and they were just there. And like, even when I when I doubted myself, when I when I felt like maybe I'm not going to go to the next level, they they just they were just there. And one more person beloved, just tell us who is the proprietor of his calling card.

00;48;40;21 - 00;48;55;24
Winnie
So that is central. I was concerned they followed up on school fees, but he was just there and he just kept taking a chance on me and it feels good to be here.

00;48;56;16 - 00;49;17;29
Sonal
Yeah. Yeah. Hundred percent. I'm thank thank you so much for sharing because we all have had people I think of them as angels. They did so without expectations. And what a life now you're living because you're you're you're you're living that purpose. So this has been an absolute pleasure. Whitney, What is the best way for people to learn more about you and your work?

00;49;19;19 - 00;49;37;10
Winnie
Yeah. So I invite people to to to check out Village Enterprise, that blog a lot about how off they are. I'm on LinkedIn at Whitney, so you'll find me there so really happy to connect with people to just learn more about how can they affect.

00;49;37;10 - 00;49;52;11
Sonal
I will make sure I link the website URL as well as your LinkedIn profile in the show notes. This has been such a pleasure, Whitney, Thank you so much for your time today and wish you continued success with everything you do with Village Enterprise and beyond.

00;49;52;11 - 00;49;54;15
Winnie
Thank you to you for buying.

00;49;54;25 - 00;50;21;15
Sonal
Hey there. Thank you for taking the time to listen to today's show. If you loved it, please do leave me a review on Apple Podcasts. I searched high and low to bring you the very best guest and I am so proud to bring you their stories and game changing career lessons. The best compliment that you could ever give me is taking a screenshot of today's episode and sharing it with your LinkedIn network and tagging me.

00;50;21;24 - 00;50;22;07
Winnie
At.

00;50;22;14 - 00;50;34;04
Sonal
Sonal by Health s1 l b e h. L. All right. I look forward to spending time together on the next episode of the How I Got Hired podcast. Take care of yourself and bye for now.