How I Got Hired

140: Olivier Onghena-'t Hooft: How being kidnapped taught him life's true meaning, why he refused to lay off 2000 people and Noble Purpose & why it's needed today

• Sonal Bahl • Episode 140

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This episode features an inspiring conversation with Olivier Onghena-t Hooft, an entrepreneur and author who believes in the power of noble purpose to drive careers and organizations toward meaningful impact. Through stories of his diverse career—from diplomacy to corporate leadership and a life-altering kidnapping—Olivier articulates the importance of developing a coherent life purpose. 

• Discover Olivier's multi-faceted career and how each role shaped his worldview 
• Hear about his harrowing experience of being kidnapped and its transformative effects 
• Understand the concept of noble purpose and why it matters in today’s work environment 
• Learn about Olivier's methodology for helping organizations align their purpose with their strategy 
• Explore the significance of taking time for personal reflection and the impact of sabbaticals 
• Reflections on the essence of caring leadership and the idea of ‘lovenship’ 
• Olivier shares insights on creating meaningful change and inspiring impact at various levels 

If you're seeking to ignite your career with purpose, don't miss the thoughtful insights shared in this episode. 

Follow Olivier:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/olivieronghena/

GINPI website: https://ginpi.eu/

Book: https://www.olivieronghena.com/noble-purpose/book-noble-purpose/ 

Personal website: https://www.olivieronghena.com/

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Sonal:

Hey there, welcome to the how I Got Hired podcast. I'm your host, sonal Behal, former HR director, founder of Supercharge and corporate survivor of an epic career roller coaster that started out in India, zipped through South America and landed in Europe, and it's been such a wild ride navigating visa, sponsorships, layoffs, recessions, all while working in Spanish and French, which I learned on the fly somehow, raising two kids somehow, and sometimes just trying to remember where I parked my car. Now, as a career strategist, I believe a fulfilling career isn't just for those with Ivy League degrees or fancy connections. No, it's a right we all deserve. That's why I'm here to bring you top tier career advice through coaching courses and this very podcast where we meet ordinary people like you and me who share extraordinary stories of career success, to prove that if they can do it, you can do it too. So buckle up and get ready to get supercharged. Hey, welcome back, welcome back.

Sonal:

As you can see from this title, this episode is interesting. It's different. I'd like to think every episode is interesting and different because I choose my guests super duper carefully, as you probably know. And today, why am I saying it's different? Okay, so my guest today is an entrepreneur, investor, author, philanthropist, and last time I checked he has founded six organizations. So everything he does is centered around this one word meaning, giving meaning, okay, and we are going to talk with Olivier Olivier, I am laughing because I checked before, we pressed record and I'm screwing it up again.

Sonal:

Olivier Onkhinatov we're going to talk about his career, how he got to this point with all these fancy titles. Yes, we will talk about all this good stuff, but we will go deeper and we will talk about purpose, specifically noble purpose, which has been the central theme of Olivier's career, particularly in these, I would say, the last decade and a half Olivier's career, particularly in these, I would say, the last decade and a half. And Olivier's venture, ginpi. We're going to talk about that today. What is GINPI? What does it stand for? It's an acronym.

Sonal:

What he does is in his work. He works with CEOs, business owners, investors, political leaders, including heads of state, to improve the condition of humankind, society and the world. How does he do this? Like? Does this even make sense to you? And you're thinking, oh my gosh, this sounds really soft. There's nothing soft about this. We will get into the details and, in addition, without forgetting this, olivier's journey has had its fair share of drama, success setbacks, including being at the helm of one of Belgium's top telecom companies, as well as being kidnapped a long time ago, being kidnapped by FARC. If you don't know what FARC is, it used to be the Revolutionary People's Army in Colombia back in the day, and it's not that they're entirely disappeared, but there is a story here. And how did all these experiences, experiences, shape who Olivier is today? Olivier, such an honor. Welcome to the show thank you so much.

Olivier:

It's an incredible pleasure to be here same same pleasure.

Sonal:

Olivier, we're gonna get started because I know that you and I have worked hard behind the scenes to get this recording. We've been trying for a few months, and so, without further ado, I'm going to jump right in here we are, and I'm going to jump right in. So let's talk about your career.

Olivier:

I want to talk about it in two parts, before you started, jinbi which is for those who don't know Global Institution and Noble Purpose Institute right. Global Inspiration and Noble Purpose Institute Inspiration. I knew I messed that up. Global Inspiration.

Sonal:

Global Inspiration and Noble Purpose Institute, thank you. Before you started Jinbi and after. So at the beginning, you worked at all kinds of different places. You were at the European Commission, based in Brussels, strasbourg and New York, then you had your own small venture, and then you were at Belkacom, which is now known as Proximus, which is one of the largest, most respected companies here in Belgium, as well as Ormit, among others. So let's talk about this part, because I know I'm talking about it as if it's a monolith, but it must have been a very diverse experience for you. Yes, is there any? Is there any particular role, olivier, that you want to single out that had a profound impact on your career? And knowing that this show is called how I got hired, we like we like to know the behind-the-scenes stuff here. How did you get that role? Tell us about that.

Olivier:

Yes, in sake of the time, I'll try to be doing this in a summarized way, because there are so many things to share. I'm happy to be here and I hope this is going to be interesting and inspiring for your audience. So when I was 16, I decided that I wanted to be an ambassador. And why did I decide that I wanted to be an ambassador? Because at my parents and grandparents' place, we used to live, like in this. It's a big house where I lived with my brothers, my parents and my grandparents, which was an interesting, um, interesting thing, and so often the guests coming to to meet my parents and grandparents were people from all kinds of backgrounds scholars, cultures and I found it incredibly exciting to see all these different people. Um, and then I I did studies that led me to going into a multilateral diplomacy, which is where I started my career, and I had the incredible opportunity to start working in the very close environment of the former president of the European Commission, which is one of the institutions of the European Union under or at a time led by Jacques Delors, which was an absolute reference the late Jacques Delors he died recently and what I figured out while being there, I mean I have. I can tell stories that you probably not believe. So it was such an exciting time and at the same time I realized that this was such a huge machinery we're talking 90s, very administrative that I felt that this was not what I wanted. So I said this is not the kind of life I want to have.

Olivier:

I had this dream about what I had seen as a child and what I thought diplomacy was about. But then I saw the reality and that was absolutely not my thing. I can, for example, give as an example this I was asked by the head of mission we didn't call our head of the delegation to the United Nations, so the European Union delegation to the United Nations. We didn't call her ambassador, we called her head of mission.

Olivier:

So the head of mission asked me to coordinate a meeting with all the heads of the different countries so the ambassadors of the different countries and we were having conversations, or they were having conversations, about where to put a comma between words in some phrases, and I thought I was like in a total. I come from a surreal, of surrealist country, uh, which is belgium. So I thought this was like the most surreal thing I had ever seen and I was like not understanding that we would spend literally minutes, probably even more, on like where are we going to put the comma between the words? Because the way how we would interpret long story short. I decided after some time to leave because I wanted to do something more action oriented and I'm not saying, by the way, that in the european union there is no action but not the action that I wanted to have and that is how I ended up in my first business venture.

Sonal:

Oh my gosh, wow, before we talk about your business venture, but I want to just reflect a few things that you shared. It's making me laugh. The comma so you mentioned this was a little bit unusual. Living with your grandparents I love that. It's actually very common in my culture for multiple families to live together. I've lived with my grandparents, including my maternal as well as my paternal grandparents, and it's one thing that I regret that my kids don't have today, because they only see them once or twice a year when we go back to india. Um, what a, what a gift, what a gift that must have been great.

Sonal:

and then the second thing I it's so interesting, I've had other guests say this Like I've always wanted to do X, y, z, and then I got there and I said, oh my gosh. So there is an expression be careful what you wish for, because when you get it it clarifies what you don't want sometimes. And sometimes it comes in waves to you that, hey, I don't know what I'm doing here. Sometimes it can come like a like a bang right, like a brick hitting your head. And maybe for you that trigger was the comma argument, because you're like what is going on? There's so many bigger fish to fry and we're talking about this.

Sonal:

So this is important for our dear listener. It may have been hitting you in waves, it may be hitting you like a brick when you're questioning your very presence in your current environment. And you said I was looking for a little bit more action. And you know to be fair, comma. When I think of action, I don't think of comma, I think of exclamation point, I think of question marks. If we're going to stick to the, if we're going to stick to the punctuation ideology, yes, so.

Olivier:

So what I think is I will speak later um when we go further in my journey, because I think that is really interesting for the listeners to reflect about impact what is the kind of impact you want to have? And without me being very conscious at the time because I was still young, the start of my career, I was what? 25, 20-something. So for me I realized throughout that impact is really important and I was thinking of what, all the things that were happening at the time. There was the Iraq invasion in Kuwait. There was the liberation of the it was just after the fall of the Berlin Wall, so the former USSR was falling apart. The Baltic states became independent and became members of the United Nations. There was a lot of stress already in Palestine, israel, with the Palestine Liberation Organization, plo. So incredibly interesting times. And I was not seeing how that reflected.

Sonal:

I mean, we were talking about there, the ambassadors were talking about these matters, but it was focused on the comma and I sort of like didn't see the relevance to what- I understand, and I think that says something about you, olivier, because a person who's sensitive and caring, because this is back in the day when we didn't have computers and phones in our face all the time, we didn't have social media and you were still aware of the geopolitical around you. Right, this shows empathy, this shows, I think, maturity and words like impact. I don't know a lot of maybe today a lot of 20-somethings think about it, but I didn't. I don't know a lot of maybe today, a lot of 20 somethings think about it, but I didn't.

Olivier:

Back then, it was more about go out there graduate, get a job, be useful to society as opposed to. I think I think it's also common sense. So no, it's, I really think it's also common sense. I mean, how? Anyway, I think it was more about common sense than about empathy and and about having a big vision. I think it was really more about common sense. And how much common sense do we have in our life? Right?

Sonal:

Yeah, absolutely. And, as they say, common sense is not common practice. So then, what made you say I'm going to? So this is the first of your several ventures that you started and, like you said, I'm inexperienced, I didn't quite know what was going on, what I want, but here you are and you started your first venture.

Olivier:

What brought that? I think it was purely opportunistic. It was like really purely opportunistic. There was no big plan, there was no big idea. I was just going with the flow. I thought like, well, this is not working at the commission, which was a bit of a deception, obviously, because you know, I had this big idea and I thought that, etc. Etc. Which I finally didn't proceed with. So I met this Dutch entrepreneur, we started talking and we finally ended up doing business together and I did that for two years, which was really exciting because all of a sudden I'm in a very different environment.

Olivier:

Talking about doing that is very much doing. We had a merchandising business enterprises to boost their products or boost their reputation or boost the name through all kinds of things that we would produce for them. I mean the typical merchandising, what we call below the line in the marketing terms. And then after a year and a half or more or less, I realized that it was a difficult thing to proceed because my business partner brought in his father-in-law and brought in his spouse and I had accepted that. But then all of a sudden the dynamics shifted. Where we were 50-50 owners, there was all the time the presence of the two others and that energetically really created a very different atmosphere and I was kind of like fight the energy. So I decided to sell my 50% to an external shareholder who bought my 50% and I went back to Brussels to brussels, right, right, and and and.

Sonal:

What proceeded next? Um, olivier, is your uh large, you know long um illustrious corporate career in belgium, where you did a lot of cool stuff, like I said, um at belgacom, which is now called proximus, and um ormit, the talent agency, right, so yeah um.

Olivier:

So, after after the, so interesting and I and I really think that this is of value for for the people listening is is I had, again, not not a real plan and um, I had my degrees. Um, I had my um first um work experiences, but there I was without a plan and then I got called um by uh Elhacom Proximus. Now, um, they were looking for um key account managers and I thought that is cool and I had discovered that I'm quite good in in you know, um promoting ids and promoting um products. So, long story short, I started working with uh belhacom in a role as a key account manager was very successful. After six months, they asked me the typical thing that then they ask they. Working with Belhacom in a role as a key account manager was very successful. After six months, they asked me the typical thing that then they ask. They asked me to become a manager. So I became the head of customer service, which was an incredibly interesting experience. We started with four people, ended up with about 35, built a team. I learned to manage a team of which I was not the owner, because I was definitely, obviously not the owner of that, that enterprise and interestingly, is I the way how I was um doing that was by bringing sense to why and I did this in a very unconscious way actually, because now it all seems like very organized, as that is very much what I'm doing every day but I did it in a way that was very organic. And I'll give an example in my role as head of customer relations, I was reporting to the executive committee because we obviously discovered a lot of things that were not working well and they found it very interesting rightly so to to learn what was going wrong. So I would come with a report and tell them you know, in production, in logistics, in marketing, in sales, etc. Etc.

Olivier:

And, um, there was a conversation that the um at that time, uh, chief executive um wanted to have with me and he said you have to fire that person. And I said said you have to fire that person? And I said why do I have to fire that person in my team? He said because we have had a complaint from a customer and that customer says that he is totally not respecting his requirements. And I said to the CEO. I said but do you know what this is about? Because I knew the case. So that was a customer that was actually trying to get a lot of money from a so-called big issue that he had and it was actually a minor thing. But the guy was just blowing it because he thought such a huge organization at the time remember we were a 40 000, um, a 40 000 person enterprise and I had said to one of my team members I I said we're not going to go there, we're not going to accept to pay that money to compensate the customer. So the CEO said to me you have to fire him. And I said, if you insist to fire him, then you will, at the same time, also fire me, because that's not how I treat people and that's not how I will deal. And he was so surprised that I dared to say that to him. I was obviously much junior, but this has created.

Olivier:

And then I went back to my team and I said this is what happened. So, guys, we have an important role again, impact again. Why are we here? What are we doing? That's it. So we are not going to let our customers down down, but at the same time, we're not going to let our customers down but at the same time, we're not going to let our customers do whatever with our organization which we represent. And that became the story in my team first and then outside of the team. That people said, wow, this is amazing the way how they do business there in that team and I have really learned that that is really important.

Olivier:

And then I got other roles. I became executive director of a large division with about 2,000 people and when I announced that I was going to go there, people said, oh my God, you're going to the trash bin of the organization because that division had a very bad reputation. And I said how can people say that a division with 2,000 people is the trash bin of the organization? And we had to do a massive restructuring. Huge increase in productivity was required, which we achieved after two years. We did not fire anybody. We had, I think, we let go about a third of the people.

Olivier:

We did it in a very fluent, respectful way and the way how we did it was by working with the people and by showing them how important it was.

Olivier:

By working with the people and by showing them how important it was to create a future that if we would not do that maybe everybody would stay there, but then at the end nobody would be able to stay, because it would just be an unprofitable business.

Olivier:

And and what I have learned from that is when you work with people, when you lead people and I can tell you it was not an easy piece. I mean it now sounds all very easy and simple, but it has been sometimes incredibly difficult. I was 28, 29, leading a division of about 2,000 people, which obviously is not very I mean normal, so to say normal in the sense of like. I mean, I was very early in that role, but I have learned that working with people is really important when it comes to clarity, to explaining why we're doing what we're doing. Again, that impact, that meaning it started developing there. And when people trust you, people believe you, you can do amazing things. And that is really what was very important for me to create a trust oh my gosh, yes I, I I'm taking so much away from this.

Sonal:

Um, olivier, I think, uh, you leading by example hasn't happened because you started the noble purpose institute, it's, the seeds have been planted a long time ago. Um, to take the senior person's word as this is it, this is set in stone. But to go against it, right, that takes courage, because so many people would have said in your place, I have to fire the guy, I better fire him. And there's no way I'm gonna to say if you fire him, you're going to fire me, because people of principles, you know, like the good guy, the nice guy always finishes last. I hate that. That's not true.

Sonal:

Right, you spoke up and you got promoted. You know, later on you did even better, you did well. But for people to hear that you stood up for that person and you said I'm not going to do the wrong thing, because if you're going to make me do the wrong thing, I'm out. They the respect that comes from that. They know how hard it is, because if you're done, you're done. And a lot of us are coming from fear, right, a lot of us are coming from no, keep your job, put your head down, and I think that the meaning and the purpose you're talking about is so much needed. I know you're talking about the 90s, but this is so much needed. 20, 30 years today, like today with greedy, capitalist companies are like fire the guy, fire these people. 2000 member department, calling them a garbage bin, which means this is how you think of people.

Olivier:

Literally, you're thinking of them as disposable yes and that is for yeah, go ahead unfortunately, and it is unfortunately what happens too often, you know. So what I, what I observe, take away. We will get later to what we do at GIMP. But I have learned through that experience that if you want to change something, you have to show the example. And what I often observe in organizations, when we are being asked to transform their organizational culture, to transform in a certain way their DNA, or to re-tap into the DNA and by that build the right culture, they want to change a lot, they being the executive committee, the CEO, the shareholders. Yes, it's a change, but then we have that problem. I'll give a very clear example. But then we have that problem with that chief commercial. Or we have a bit of an issue with that CFO, but they bring in so much money or they know how to run the company, so this would be a huge problem if we would fire them.

Olivier:

So then you create that disconnect On the one hand, you want to transform and you believe that these leaders have to show the example, and, on the other hand but you know what we're going to keep them in place, even if they behave in a way that is unacceptable, or even if they do not respect the values, or even if they would say things that shocks people, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, and then I say so we love culture, we love culture, but we love money more.

Olivier:

That's what they're saying, exactly yes. Or, as you say, not having the courage to take a difficult call. Let me give you an example, without naming the enterprise. The client we were working for a family-owned pharmaceutical company, and the CEO was totally with us wanted to transform, said help us bring in a noble purpose, connect that to the right culture, let's make a performance organization, et cetera, et cetera. So we did that and then we bumped into the.

Olivier:

But the problem is that we have an issue with the CFO and the CFO is super well connected with the financial markets and the CFO is the one who knows all the details about the business and there is a risk that I said listen to the CEO. I said to the ceo. I said to do the ceo. I said if, if, if, you really want to take this serious, you have to show that you're willing to go there, whatever the cost, because the, the gain that you're going to get is so much bigger than the price you pay for the cost of letting go of the cfo, and that made him, uh, decide to let go of the enterprise.

Sonal:

And no, it wasn't crazy, everything moved on. No, because it wasn't his head, the sun shines the next day.

Olivier:

They stroked a deal, they agreed on things and obviously they are professionals, so the CFO didn't start badmouthing to the financial markets and what have you? And things went very well and it has become a very successful enterprise, despite the risk of.

Sonal:

I can give many examples of these, but that's I I can imagine, because you are going inside the belly of the beast, olivier, and you're, you're, seeing the things that most people, they look away, they look away or they, you know, they pretend they didn't see it or you know, they feign ignorance.

Sonal:

But you're seeing it and you're, you're, you're, um, doing it, but not coming from a place of yes, we need you know the classic consulting we need x number of people gone, remove the fat, take out the trash, all those dehumanizing ways you're saying that's there's a there's a reason you hired these people. They're good people, we're going to work together.

Olivier:

Yes, and let me give an advice to the people listening here the looking away is what too often we also do with ourselves. We look away from that. What we should not look away from, that, what we should not look away from and if we really want to have a successful career and successful does not only mean making a lot of money, or I would even say it is not about only making lots of money, it is about realizing yourself. I think that is the most important thing. And so in my crazy journey, which seems totally um, non-logic and and probably it is non-logic there is one logic or there is one red thread is that I have more and more learned to go into that. What really makes me more of who I truly am. So, by doing all these different things, I have learned always from this idea of bringing meaning, and that bringing meaning obviously has been super boosted by my kidnapping and how I was confronted brutally with life and that.

Olivier:

But that is the problem is that a lot of people look away. They look away from themselves, they're disconnected, so they do all kinds of things and at the end of the day they burn out, they get bored out, they are not satisfied, they become horrible leaders because they do all kinds of things and at the end of the day, they burn out. They get bored out. Yeah, they are not satisfied. They become horrible leaders because they're super frustrated, and I think that is a huge problem in our current society. So people don't look away. Don't look away. Look to yourself and see what is really necessary for you. How can you become a better leader? How can you become a better investor? How can you become a better head of state, a better CEO?

Olivier:

Yes, yes A better baker, a better professor. You, you know it is for all kind of roles yeah, which help you to fulfill your purpose, absolutely so.

Sonal:

Speaking of which, um, olivia, let's talk about this, because I know this was a while ago and I, you know, you and I have chatted before, but I think, um, it's one of those, I think, events that sometimes they shape us right, there were a few events that led you to leave life as an employee in someone else's company and just leave, right, and so you mentioned the kidnapping. Tell us a little bit about this, because, god forbid, anyone like, I hope, the person listening, I hope you never. We never have to go through this, but, olivier, you did and you made it out. Thank goodness you did. But we want to learn what this was like for you and how it changed your outlook.

Olivier:

Obviously it was horrible. Imagine getting shot in a car when the driver tries to escape from the attackers. It was physically a thing that I wish nobody to have to experience. At the same time, it was a huge um experience for me because the the many weeks and months sorry, can I?

Sonal:

I'm interrupting you, I apologize. Take us back a little and tell us. Tell us what was like, tell us the context, uh, about.

Olivier:

What were you doing there, what happened, um, etc okay, so I was um visiting my uh partner, uh of the time, a life partner, not business partner um and was staying um with his parents. Um, and there was a friend um of the family, a gentleman, a businessman that I didn't know, who was interested in the arts, and I started at a time being um interested in, in, in contemporary and in the arts, and I started at a time being interested in contemporary and in the modern art. The gentleman learned that, I guess from the father of my partner, and he reached out to me and said I'm going to visit the gallery, are you interested? Okay, so I was there, actually on holidays in Colombia. Long story short, we went to the gallery and all the way back um that gentleman, brian, he was called um, he said let's go for dinner, and it was on our way in the center of bogota, colombia, that um, we were kidnapped.

Olivier:

And why we were kidnapped? Because the attackers thought that um in the car were um the father of my partner and his secretary, because it was obviously a blinded car, but it was a car that my partner's father had given us, with his driver, and so they tried to kidnap my partner's father and then ask ransom. That is actually the context, but then it was not good for him. It was not my uh partner's father, but it was me and and that um friend of the family, um, who were in the car. So when the driver tried to escape from the attackers, they started shooting at a car until they finally could block the car, beat up the, almost beat to death the. The driver threw him over me. I had already fainted because I got three bullets in my body, um and um, and then they took us away and then, when they realized after some time that we were not interesting people that is too bad for me and for Brian, or just very good is that they were going to kill us. And so this is an interesting thing, if you want to have a suspense moment, one minute, is they?

Olivier:

We were laying the tree next to each other and I speak Spanish, and there was this one guy, probably the gang leader. There were six terrorists and one of the gang leaders said liquidate them. So there was this one guy coming to us charging his um, his kalashnikov, looking at us, and I was looking at the guy. At that time I was, I had woken up from my coma. I had woken up from my coma and a guy was coming to us and was going to unload his bullets, and I closed my eyes, sort of like, made myself little, very little, for as much as I could, and I went away and I was in a place that was amazing. I was in a place of I mean, I learned afterwards that I was in a place of near death which I had no idea that that existed. Um, and it was an amazing place. It was a place where I saw millions of flowers, there was peace, there was, uh, sun, and I saw, from one of the corners of that landscape, my like, kind of like a nymph coming, like flying over the field very gently, and it was my mother, which was really bizarre. My mother, by the way, she's still alive, she's 87, um, and I thought that I was in heaven. So I thought that I was that actually. Um, so long story short. They did not shoot us because, um, a woman which we have never seen, um in the woods, silent, so it was past midnight, shouted the police is coming, the police is coming. We were in the woods, 30 kilometers out of the city, so there was no police, there was nobody in that wood and these people got afraid, so they fled with their car and our car and left us for yeah, well, for whatever. That is the story.

Olivier:

So in in the, in the recovery phase because I had to learn to walk again, because I was paralyzed and what have you I had a lot of time to think and I was thinking a lot about life and how important is life for me?

Olivier:

And I was thinking, what if I would have died? And now that I'm still alive, what can I do with my life? And I decided at that moment that I was going to do something special with life and I was going to try to let as many people as possible take advantage of my experience so that they would have not to go through kidnapping or anything similar dramatic, but learn from this crazy guy who has been kidnapped and who has a message to share about meaning and impact. And so that is kind of like making the circle from doing all kinds of things totally disconnected, you could say, to becoming more and more clear about what I wanted to do with my life and for life. And that is how, how, from having been leading for almost 10 years an amazing enterprise which was on it, um, I came to decide, um, to take a sabbatical.

Olivier:

And I needed a sabbatical because I had been working a lot, I was successful, um, I made a lot of money, but there was somehow a way that I was not feeling fulfilled.

Olivier:

And so I said now I have to take myself serious because I have picked all the boxes. I experienced with diplomacy. I have been an entrepreneur, I have been leading a large division in a big corporation, I have been the ceo of of an enterprise, a very successful enterprise, with a great team and what have you, by the way, I tried to do a management buyout of the organization and finally, it didn't work out. So I felt like now is the time for me to really push the stop button, or pause button rather and really reconnect with my experience from the kidnapping, which is the meaning of life I want to give for the coming decades. And so, after that sabbatical which is really, by the way, if you people who are listening, you can take the time and you have the opportunity to take a sabbatical, do it, because it is an amazing thing. It is absolutely clarifying. It helps you with your life, with your career, it helps you with clarifying what is important Again, it is looking fully inside. It's looking fully at yourself instead of looking away.

Sonal:

Yes, what we were talking about before.

Olivier:

It's not looking away. It's all the contrary. I find it very uncomfortable Because I was a bit from hero to zero. I mean I was sitting at home and sort of like thinking like what am I going to do tomorrow? Because I had no job at all, I was not doing apart from some investments that I had, but like there was no role as such in a function, and it was incredibly, incredibly enriching.

Olivier:

And that period, that deep dive that I did, that vision quest, in a certain way, has allowed me to reconnect with all the things that I had learned and what I believed when I was recovering from my kidnapping was so important, which was a respectful life. And so, long story short, after my sabbatical I decided that I would do something on a global level that had sufficient impact to help the target audiences that you mentioned that we work with, to impact society so that we can come to a better humankind and and to a better world, and not from a purely philosophical perspective but from a impact perspective. So that is more or less the journey and the connection with the the kidnapping to kidnapping thank you for sharing this.

Sonal:

Um, and I love that this made you rethink and, at the same time, we don't need to go through something so life-altering to do this, but sometimes the shake up is needed, right, um, you know, just to stay here for a minute here, olivier, you, you could have done a few other things. What made you specifically say inspiration, noble purpose? This is it. You know, some people will say environment, climate, animals, refugees, this specifically, like someone listening today. They're like I'm a little lost, kind of figured figuring out my purpose. What made you narrow it down?

Olivier:

I think, probably connecting with who I am, and I think, when I was 16, as I told you, I decided to become an ambassador. And what does an ambassador do? An ambassador represents a country or an organization or um, a group of nations, and I'm in a certain way, I'm an ambassador. I'm representing ideas, I'm representing this concept of of, of which impact do you, as a human being, want to have? What kind of life do you want to live? How do you want to use people that are working with you, for you? Um, in the best way and in the best way. That means in a way that these people become better versions, or the best versions of themselves, instead of exploiting them or instead of crushing them.

Olivier:

You know the very neoliberal, I think, very sick way of of doing business. There is very different ways of doing business, and that is what I figured out in my sabbatical. I said you can create an incredible economy, a very powerful economy. You can create a very powerful political system where there is more harmony, where there is more for everybody to win instead of only for a small group, whether that is the poor or the rich, whether that is the privileged or the underprivileged, whether I mean. You know, these things come all together in, in, in the way how I look at things, um and so the the idea of being an ambassador is really something that I feel, although I don't call myself an ambassador, but I am representing that idea and I call people very much like what an ambassador would do. I call people, the CEOs, the business leaders, the political leaders that we work with around the globe, I call them on their responsibility and their sense of impact and their sense of impact.

Olivier:

Let me give you an example. When we meet, when we are talking with a potential new client, I will have a conversation or two with the president or the CEO, and then the first question I will ask is how successful do you think you are? And that is a very interesting question to ask, because what are they going to say? What are the parameters that make people decide how successful I am? And so most of the people will say well, you know, we are very successful because we have tripled our top line, or we have doubled our bottom line line, or we have an ebida of so much, or we have a huge uh success in that market that we have opened up two years ago. And then I asked them very brutally but and very confrontingly. I asked them and at what collateral damage? And that is a question that people are not expecting. So they look at me and they're kind of like puzzled and these people are not used. So they look at me and they're kind of like puzzled and these people are not used to be puzzled, right.

Sonal:

But they are puzzled or confronted.

Olivier:

Exactly, and that is a moment when we start having true conversations. So, your success, my success, their success at what price do we get there? And I have learned that when they were telling me are you crazy to go and lead that organization? It's the garbage bin of the enterprise, I said that is not a garbage bin. There is 2000 people working there. And when I remember the great things that we could do, despite the fact that it was a complex department or a complex division, you can do a lot of things with people and I think that is something that I have learned throughout my career, with all the, the, the mistakes that I made and with all the, the. Putting things in perspective, obviously, is that when you have that approach, you can push people to go really very far and people will really step over their comfort, will step out of their comfort zone, people will really confront their, their fears, and I think that is what we need to do yeah, yeah step out of our comfort zone and and learn to deal with our fears exactly, exactly.

Sonal:

So tell us. I know you've written a whole book on this. Um, olivier, it's a it's not a fair question to ask. But how do this Like, how do you work when you say improve humankind, society, world? Give us like the one two minute snapshot when you work with a client and people are like heads of state, ceos, business owners. So this is a part two. Why are they? What are they? Why are they hiring you? Why are they worried? What is on their mind?

Olivier:

oh, there are so many um, different reasons, but, um, some people hire us because of the sense of responsibility, so they know that they want to do things differently and that they need to do things differently, but they don't know how to do it. Some people, um, are very successful and we have had cases of clients, very well-known enterprises, that were very successful, but the ceos or the presidents were afraid that by being too successful, that the organization would become like fat, you know, like a fat pig, and they would just sort of like sit and eat more but not really move a lot moving, being thinking of of innovative ideas, being creative, being ready for competition, because we are a more and more globalized world, so competition is easier in a certain way. Others are organizations that are in big problems and they need to transform, but then they need to transform what it's, not because the CEO declares we're going to transform, that things are going to happen. So you need to work with the people.

Sonal:

So often they need to work with people.

Olivier:

How do you help them transform? So we help we. We have a methodology which is a very simple thing and I'm happy to share it to the audience. It's a very simple thing. We always will make a coherence between four what I believe the four important elements, and we call that the houses of noble purpose, and that can be for an ngo, that can be for an NGO, that can be for a for-profit, that can be for a political party. It works for all kinds of systems, for all kinds of organizations. We need to find harmony between the noble purpose, which I believe is the first thing to clarify. Why are we doing what we're doing?

Olivier:

Between the leadership and we don't speak about leadership, we speak about lovenship. It is a loving and caring leadership. Don't call about, we don't speak about leadership. We speak about love and ship. It is a loving and caring leadership and it's the capacity of being a loving and caring leader. Um, caring in the sense of how can I help my people to become the best versions of themselves? We're not talking love like you would have with your partner, like you would have with children. That's not that kind of love. It's a love of development. How can we develop our people love and ship.

Olivier:

The third capacity or the third element is is the third capacity or the third element is is the organizational culture, with the values, the guiding principles, the foundation of your organization, and then it is the strategy. So how is the strategy going to support the noble purpose? Noble purpose is like the long-term idea that is not going to change every three or five years. It is. It's. It's really why you are in in business or why you as a human being exist. I mean, it's exactly the same for an individual.

Olivier:

And then we try to. We work with these four elements, even if we are being asked at entry point for one of the four Can you help us with aligning the strategy? Can you help us to transform the culture? Can you work around our leadership or can you do something about our noble purpose? And then we start working with these four elements in subtle ways. That's how we help these organizations or these people transform. And it works on an individual level. It works on a collective level collective being political party or being an executive team or an intact team or a family office or a board of directors, and then we have the organizational level.

Sonal:

It works, thank you. It works full stop, which is why people continue to work with you.

Olivier:

And it's huge because you said in the beginning it's not something like fluffy, something philosophical. We use a lot of philosophy and here again I mean I like to, to, to share ideas and I like to share um uh concepts, but at the end of the day I mean we are going full swing into yes, yes, and we're deep diving, deep dive, absolutely deep diving, and the impact sonalal is huge, yeah yeah.

Olivier:

It's really huge because we work on the DNA of an organization. We work with the people, we work with the leadership, we work with the owners or the leaders or the people behind who have created so, the investors or the project creators.

Olivier:

So we work on multiple levels with with these people but, the overarching thing is yeah, which impact do we want to have? And is that impact brutal? Is that impact subtle? Is that impact local? Is that impact global? Is that impact respectful? Is that impact destructive? Right, yeah, that is a question that we help them to our resolve and, and they say right, the fish rots at the head.

Sonal:

So you have to start at the head, at the leadership. I love that you call it. Love, ship, um and and love. When I hear love, I think of caring. I'm not using you, it's not pure pure. Yes, it's a transaction. Yes, we have to be profitable, but it doesn't have to be at the expense of someone's well-being, right, yes, and there's a bigger purpose that you're doing this so amazing. I have this last question I want to ask you when you look back these last 30 odd years out of here, is there a standout moment maybe the one you shared that supercharged your career, your, your purpose and helped you to move closer to your current success?

Olivier:

um, I think each of these experiences and I know this, this, this is maybe a not the kind of answer you're looking for, but each of these experiences has given me a huge sorry for my French kick in the ass, or a really big boost, because I had to reinvent myself each time and, at the same time, I have been super guided by mentors, by people who gave me ideas, who gave me advice, by mentors, by people who gave me ideas, who gave me advice. But I think the most important in my career has been the sabbatical, having decided to dare to stop literally almost from day one to day two and take the time to to reinvent myself and to really be sure that I'm connected with who I truly am. So I think that is probably for me, the most.

Sonal:

If I have to put them on a category of, or hierarchy of, importance, that's probably the moment in my career that has been the most relevant to me yeah, thank you so much for sharing this and I think that, um, if anyone wants to learn more about, uh, olivier and the nodo purpose institute, definitely check out the website. It's gimp, g-i-n-p-i dot org. Um. Also, olivier, I'm gonna link your your linkedin profile in the show notes. People can learn more about you. You've written a book on this. I think we need this today more than ever. I think the need has never been greater. So, um, I really, really appreciate you giving us the time today, um, and sharing with your heart and um.

Sonal:

I I wish you continued success with um, with jimpy, with everything you're doing and beyond thanks a lot for having me.

Olivier:

So now there is more things coming up, more books coming up, and and I find this very interesting, very pleasant and an honor of having been here with you.

Sonal:

So thank you for that hey, you made it to the end and that means a lot to me because you could have been listening to a bajillion other things, so this likely means you enjoyed the episode. So I recommend that you hit follow on the app you were listening this podcast on and share it with a friend who could use some career inspiration. Come on, sharing is caring, right. Thank you so much for spending time with me today and catch you next time on how I Got Hired.